Originally from: http://text.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,9723504
[help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
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lildschwarz @ 19th Mar 03:59PM:
[help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
I'm using DNS Central to forward a doman's email address to my snet.net address.
This afternoon all email sent to my forwarded email address is being bounced, but email going to my snet.net email is going through.
I've contacted DNS Central, thinking that they are main culprit, and have received the following response.
Your mail host has three mail servers:
% host snet.net
snet.net mail is handled (pri=10) by mta2.snet.net
snet.net mail is handled (pri=10) by yipvmb.prodigy.net
snet.net mail is handled (pri=10) by mta1.snet.net
The mta1.snet.net and mta2.snet.net are both rejecting all mail with an error "Data Format Error". The yipvmb.prodigy.net mail server is accepting mail without problems.
We cannot control which of their mail servers that mail gets delivered to, only they can do that. Hopefully this message gets routed to their working mail server so that you will see it. You will need to contact them about the problem with their two snet.net mail servers.
Can any of the SBC Techs here give me an idea what the 'Data Format Error' is and how and if I should contact SBC to resolve the situation.
--
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LD
WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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lildschwarz @ 19th Mar 05:40PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Well, I've contacted SBC/SNET and am even more perplexed.
According to Tier II Support, as long as one mail server is working, anythhing that should end up in my SNET mailbox, should go through.
They've suggested that I get back to DNS Central, with a copy of the bounced header to see what they have to say.
Here is a copy of the bounced message forwarded me by one of the SBC/SNET techs.
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:56:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem"
To: sbcis_mm@yahoo.com
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
The original message was received at Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:56:49 -0800
(PST)
from web60909.mail.yahoo.com [216.155.196.85]
----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
(reason: 553 5.3.0 DNSBL:To request removal of,[130.94.96.194],send
and E-mail to removeme@sbc.sbcglobal.net)
----- Transcript of session follows -----
... while talking to mta1.snet.net.:
>>> MAIL From:
553 5.3.0 DNSBL:To request removal of,[130.94.96.194],send and
E-mail to removeme@sbc.sbcglobal.net
501 5.6.0 Data format error
Message/delivery-status
Reporting-MTA: dns; mailserver-130-94-96-194.dnscentral.com
Received-From-MTA: DNS; web60909.mail.yahoo.com
Arrival-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:56:49 -0800 (PST)
Final-Recipient: RFC822; d.schwarz@snet.net
Action: failed
Status: 5.3.0
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 553 5.3.0 DNSBL:To request removal
of,[130.94.96.194],send and E-mail to removeme@sbc.sbcglobal.net
Last-Attempt-Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:56:53 -0800 (PST)
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Maxo @ 19th Mar 06:54PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Shoot an IM to CCCMTech with a link to this thread and your e-mail address to see what he can see.
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lildschwarz @ 19th Mar 07:14PM:
[help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Sent an IM to CCCMTech and got his 'away' message. Is ther anyone else I can try
In the meantime. I've gotten some further information from DNS Central. Tney still maintain that because two snet.net servers are returning a 'Data Format Error', their mail forwarding server is bouncing messages back to the original sender. I am presently on the phone AGAIN with SBC/SNET and they are in the process of forwarding my inquiry up to their network technicians.
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LD
WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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lildschwarz @ 19th Mar 07:41PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Well, I have definitive proof that the problem lies on SBC/SNET's end. I have set up a new webslingr address (using DNS Central's email forwarding service) with the ending address being my hotmail account.
I have just sent myself a test message to this new address and was able to receive it in my Hotmail mailbox.
As I asked the SBC/SNET Tier II support tech, what is SBC/SNET going to offer me for my wasted half day??
--
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LD
WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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Maxo @ 19th Mar 08:57PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Ugh, I didn't mean CCCMTech I meant kmac1.
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lildschwarz @ 19th Mar 09:02PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
No harm, no foul.
I IMed or emailed the SBC Techs according to their wishes and the directions you gave me, just to get more insights into the problem.
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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Maxo @ 19th Mar 09:11PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Follow the instructions of the header and send an e-mail to removeme@sbc.sbcglobal.net Sounds like those servers are blocking that recipient while for some reason the others are not. An e-mail to that group might have more insight as to what's going on.
--
If'n you ain't the grandaddy of all liars. I'll teach you to be happy. I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs - Happy Happy Joy Joy »maxolasersquad.com
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lildschwarz @ 19th Mar 09:24PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Done
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Matthew @ 19th Mar 09:28PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Yeah, looks like your host has been blacklisted. The one server that does accept the mail is a prodigy server that has not been updated with latest spam blocks, I am being told that unless your host is unlisted the third server will likely also begin to kick mail from your host once it is updated with the latest spam blocks.
DNS Central will need to e-mail removeme@sbc.sbcglobal.net to become unlisted in this case.
--
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lildschwarz @ 19th Mar 09:38PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Blacklisted??
Can't say I'm surprised, as DNS Central told me that the prodigy server was the only one this afternoon accepting mail.
According to the most recent communication from DNS Central;
'In looking at the bounce you sent, the data error on two of their mail servers is causing our forwarding mail server to bounce the message back to the sender. Prior to sending this I have submitted a message to them at the e-mail address removeme@sbc.sbcglobal.net about this problem. Hopefully they will be quick to respond and quick to correct the problem. We will let you know what we find out.'
Just in case, I'll contact DNS Central again and ask them to resend, this time pointing out the blacklist theory.
Anything else I can do in the meantime??
Since I haven't ranted on this yet, it sure was nice for SBC/SNET to arbitrailly blacklist a forwarding domain that I've had since 1999.
--
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LD
WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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Matthew @ 19th Mar 09:43PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Some one else could be using DNS Central to spam from, in which case they get listed as a known spammer on some black list somewhere that SBC uses as a referrance.
--
It truly is the lowest level where we ALL make the difference.
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lildschwarz @ 19th Mar 09:49PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Don't think I haven't thought of that.
The bottom line is; I'm using this forwarding service for a legitamate business and don't appreciate SBC bringing my email to a screetching halt without so much as a warning shot across my bow.
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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veloct @ 20th Mar 06:40AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Understadably you are upset since it affects your business and I sympathize but I don't think you should be upset with SBC, seems that the real issue is with DNS Central and they might have been notified of this and didn't resolve it in time. Just a thought, not saying that's what happened but it is a possibility.
--
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lildschwarz @ 20th Mar 07:58AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Latest from DNS Central as of 3:50 AM 3/20/04
'Over 9 hours ago we sent a message to removeme@sbc.sbcglobal.net. We have not heard anything from them yet and by looking at the mail server logs, it appears that mta1.snet.net and mta2.snet.net both still have problems but their third mail server yipvmb.prodigy.net does not.
You should have received the following message (the last one that was routed through their yipvmb.prodigy.net mail server):
Mar 19 17:29:58 sm: i2K1TnTd018938: to=, delay=00:00:09, xdelay=00:00:09, mailer=esmtp, pri=33085, relay=yipvmb.prodigy.net. [207.115.63.29], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (i2K1Ttre242692 Message accepted for delivery)
It appears they may have tried setting up a blacklist on two of their mail servers (the mta#.snet.net ones) but they have a misconfiguration as those two servers are returning data format errors (status code 560) instead of "message refused" (status code 550) errors.
Hopefully they will review and correct the issue soon.'
Seems to me that DNS Central has been on the ball from the get go, as they've been at least communicating with me when querried about the problem.
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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lildschwarz @ 20th Mar 11:09AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Just received a call from an SBC NCG who took down all my pertiment information. He was very helpful and made it clear that as long as this remains an issue, the case will stay open and SBC will do it's best to reslove the problem.
As I stated to the NCG, SBC has been extremely understanding and communicative, as I have been, since getting angry and screaming at the phone Tech Support isn't going to reslove my problem any faster.
However, that does not release SBC from their responsibility to not only fix the problem it seems to me they've caused, but also to compensate me for time wasted and emails lost. I would, at the very least, like the issue resolved, my service restored and an explanation as to what was done, why and how it was fixed. Once this is taken care of, we can move on to the matter of compensation.
--
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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Maxo @ 20th Mar 11:20AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
If I were you I wouldn't spend too much time trying to get compensation because it won't happen. A user of DNS Central was using their service to spam SBC customers. I don't know if SBC worked with them to try and get it resolved or not but they did decide to block them based on this and that is why you are having the problems. SBC is not going to give you any compensation because they blocked a domain a known spammer is using. As far as I know SBC will only give credit for downtime with your DSL service or if one of their techs caused damage to your system.
--
If'n you ain't the grandaddy of all liars. I'll teach you to be happy. I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs - Happy Happy Joy Joy »maxolasersquad.com
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lildschwarz @ 20th Mar 12:09PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
You're preaching to the wrong choir. I have been around long enough to know how things work. I don't intend on cutting off my nose to spite my face, nor do I plan on going quietly either. Unlike most people, I am not adverse to asking for what's due me, for the simple reason that if my issue get's resolved, I'm not worse off than i was to begin with.
Again, and I cannot overstate this; this DOES NOT absolve SBC from their responsibility to keep their customers satisfied.
If, as you say, SBC has blocked all forwarding from DNS Central, then the hundreds of customers I set up with both SBC DSL and DNS Central's email forwarding would have been contacting me en masse (especially if emails to them are being bounced and their emails to me are being bounced). No, I'm going under the assumption (and it may be wrong at this point) that SBC has JUST decided to block my specific domain (webslingr.com). Why they decided to pick Firday at noon after I've had the forwarding service pointing to an SNET/SBC mailbox for quite sometime now is beyond me and is certainly a question I'd appreciate an answer to.
As far as I'm concerned, not receiving email which was working flawlessly before noon on Friday IS damage caused to my system, and unless I'm shown oiherwise, SBC seems to be at fault.
FinalIy, I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to all the readers and posters to this thread. Your additional information has been very valuable and informative. Thanks.
--
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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jm @ 20th Mar 02:08PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Again like Maxo said, I would get your hopes up for getting any compensation. I worked in SBC Dial billing for a little while. At that time, the answer was NO CREDIT for email problems. The same holds true with DSL. I have had customers who wanted to get credit for downtime on their email, I woud tell them, billing wont do that, transfer them over and explain to the billing agent, who would then tell me I wasnt going to happen.
But of course, your always welcome to try, since your case made it to NCG, you might get a diferent response. Also it always depends on which agent you get, and if they're on in a giving mood. ;)
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lildschwarz @ 20th Mar 02:21PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Completely understood, but also understand the longer this goes, the more apt I am to push for some sort of 'compensation'.
Also, as long as I get what I'm looking for, ie; continued commuication, restored service and a suitable explanation as to what happened and why, that plays into what I'll do next.
--
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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lildschwarz @ 21st Mar 11:35AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Update: Heard from another NCG about 11 AM this morning (3/21/04). No resolution yet, still working on the problem, will call me back Monday hopefully with more information or a solution. The latest NCG said the issue can only be caused by two things; SBC servers blocking the domain name, or the forwarding service not configured correctly.
When pressed for further information, the NCG revealed that according to her information, the domain (webslingr.com) wasn’t blocked, but the IP range containing the domain WAS. A request to the mail admin had already been placed to unblock the domain, so hopefully that will go through and resolve the issue.
More updates as they become available.
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lildschwarz @ 21st Mar 07:02PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
I've jsut learned that it seems SBC bas blocked all traffic from DNS Central starting as of this past Friday. For anyone that does use DNS Central's forwarding service, not to mention DNS Central themselves, I'd be a little upset to say the very least. I'm planning on contacting DNS Central with this news, as I'm sure they would be very interested to know that their whole IP range has been blocked.
Going to be a very interesting day tomorrow, I think.
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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mas90guru @ 21st Mar 08:24PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Good luck.
I regularly forward my email via my domain -- and about a month ago SBC started randomly kicking out some emails and bouncing them.
Turns out that one of their mail servers wasn't handling the email header properly -- there was a line that was similar to "forwarded to" which was being added by the server. Only through looking at the headers was I able to see what was wrong on SBC's end.
When I called tech support it was like a deer in the headlights.
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lildschwarz @ 21st Mar 08:57PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
If it was one or two emails, I could understand and chalk it up to dumb luck. Also, I've seen a copy of the bounced email and if you look through this post, I think you'll see I've included a copy of it. It comes down to this; the two SNET mail servers (mta1.snet.net and mta2.snet.net) are bouncing all forwarded email from DNS Central giving back a 560 (Data Form Error) which in turn is causing the DNS Central forwarding mail server to return a bounce message to the sender.
No chance of Tech Support acting like 'a deer in headlights'. NCG is on the case, it's not a question of 'if' this gets resolved, but 'when', since it involves so many people and so much traffic.
I think (and this is simply opinion and MINE), instead of putting in the work required to find out where exactly the problem came from, SBC decided to paint the whole of DNS Central with the same brush, ie, if we forward our email, we have something to hide and we are all spammers.
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LD
WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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lildschwarz @ 22nd Mar 01:04PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Today's Update (03/22/04)
Just heard from an SBC admin, who explained that the problem with my email forwarding seems to be with, of all places, with my email forwarding service. Somehow, there is a 'mailto:' tag added to the front of my email address, and it is this 'mailto:' tag that is causing the SBC mail servers to return a 'Data Form Error'.
If indeed this is the problem, let me first, apologize to the whole of SBC for blaming them for blocking my domain. I have done nothing but commend SBC for their communication and their handling of the situation, and if this indeed solves the problem, then my wrath for my email being down will gladly turn to DNS Central.
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LD
WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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Maxo @ 22nd Mar 01:32PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Well, whoever is to blame the important thing is that it gets resolved. Keep us updated on what happens.
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lildschwarz @ 22nd Mar 01:35PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
I completely agree with you. I've got an email into DNS Central now. We'll see what happens.
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lildschwarz @ 22nd Mar 02:04PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Reply back from DNS Central, these are their words verbatum;
We do not modify your mail in anyway as it passes through our mail server. I have no idea where they are seeing this mailto: tag.
I'm not sure why they believe the blocklist entry exists at our end as it wouldn't make any sense for us to block our own server. I don't know if the entry was made by a human or automated means but it exists within their mail system. Unfortunately it is not possible for us to add a block to their system nor can we remove it.
The data format error is caused by the non-standard response their mail server is returning due to the block list they have set up. Once they remove 130.94.96.194 from their block list the data format error will go away and become a non-issue.
I'm on the phone AGAIN with SBC anf they are trying to transfer me to the SBC DNS Department.
--
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LD
WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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lildschwarz @ 22nd Mar 02:48PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Straight from the SBC DNS Department:
DNS Central’s mail server IS being blocked. The only recourse is for DNS Central to go to the following website »mail-abuse.org/tsi/ar-fix.html and implement the fix to close the supposed ‘open relay’ on the DNS Central mail server (130.94.96.194).
Once the ‘open relay’ is closed, DNS Central is to call the SBC DNS Department at 1-888-932-4678 and work it out with them.
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LD
WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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lildschwarz @ 22nd Mar 05:40PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Here's the latest from DNS Central;
Hello,
Finally a true statement directly from the SBC DNS Department. DNS Central is on the SBC Blacklist. The ONLY option they've given me is to communicate the following to DNS Central:
1) Go to »mail-abuse.org/tsi/ar-fix.html and implement the fix to close the 'open relay' of your particular server. (SBC says there is an open relay which is being used by spammers on your mail server 130.94.96.194.)
>We reviewed this site, but unfortunately this server is not an open relay. You can review their tests here: »work-rss.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rsstest 130.94.96.194
Since SBC is referring to mail-abuse.org, they must be using the mail-abuse.org blocklists as one source. 130.94.96.194 is not listed on either of mail-abuse's legitimate and very good blocklists.
»mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/lookup?130.94.96.194
»work-rss.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/···4.96.194
Once this open realy is closed or fixed, or whatever has to be done, contact the SBC DNS Department at 1-888-932-4678 and work it out with them.
>We have someone on the phone with them right now (after wading through their automated phone system maze). I will reply when I have further information.
Frankly, I'm a little tired of having to ping-pong between two companies that I am paying in good faith for service, which at this point, is not to my satisfaction.
>I agree. Checks and balances should be in place to keep things like this from happening.
Finally, the direct numbers I was given to contact someone at DNS Central are not being answered. I would like someone to please contact me at their earliest convenience. My # is 860-344-8054.
>I will give them your number.
Regards,
Support
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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lildschwarz @ 22nd Mar 05:45PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
This just in from DNS Central;
An update...
We were on the phone with someone at 1-888-932-4678 for 30 minutes and they claim there is no block in place! We both know that isn't true. We have given them the exact message in the bounce and they just don't understand the problem....
Eventually they asked us to call their DSL department at a different number... 1-877-722-3755. 20 minutes later and the person at this number finally says they cannot help us, we need to e-mail removeme@sbc.sbcglobal.net and ask why we are blocked. They then hung up on us.
Both of the contacts at each number said they really can't help us as we are not their customer even though we said we were referred by a customer.
Do you have a contact person and a direct line we can call since our attempts have failed?
Regards,
Support
I am completely frustrated by SBC's lack of help or interest since both myself and DNS Central have attempted to do everything that SBC has suggested.
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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bluescreen03 @ 22nd Mar 06:43PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
I plugged their IP in at the spam database at dnsstuff.com and saw they were on a couple lists. Usually it's the company that's blacklisteds responsibility to request they get taken off the individual lists, sorry your having so much trouble. Sounds like they're trying to make you do the dirty work.
Just my opinion
B
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lildschwarz @ 22nd Mar 07:48PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Thanks for the help. I did what you did and saw the same thing.
I've contacted DNS Central and told them in no uncertain terms, that I think as the customer, I've done quite enough work on this issue.
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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navd @ 22nd Mar 10:02PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
There's a lot of conflicting information coming from both sides on this issue. I feel sort of guilty because I told the tier 1 tech you first talked to escalate you to the NCG because we did have enough info. If you had the info contained in this post at the time you called in we probably could have saved you tons of time in research. For example,I also found out that the mail-server does not have true reverse DNS which could also be a big problem. However as stated before it is the responsibility of the blacklisted party to request removal and provide proof that the reason the were blacklisted in the first place has been resolved. As in the case in question an open spam relay was sited as the blacklist reason DNS Central needs to show its now secure. I truly understand your frustration on this matter and I apologize. So that you have some insight on the process, when an ISP like SBC subscribes to a blacklisting service they receive a bulk lists of IPs to block and they rarely scrutinize one by one because that's what they pay these companies to do. I would be the first to say that this the not the ideal process but it's very effective.What does seem somewhat odd to me is that you don't have the ability to access your mail directly from your hosting company. Do they not provide you with POP3 and SMTP server addresses where you can bypass SBC altogether and download your email? I personally have couple of domains and one of main reasons that I do is to remain ISP independent, no matter what happens on their end I have complete control over my email, even if I change service providers.
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lildschwarz @ 22nd Mar 11:48PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
You bring up several good points and I'll try to address them in order.
First, As soon as I received the information from either SBC or DNS Central, I posted to this thread. So you could consider it a running diary.
Second, as I've said before, every time I hear from SBC, they tell me something different or ask DNS Central to do or talk to someone different and then ignore the contact.
Case in point, if you review some of the most recent posts, you'll see that SBC asked DNS Central to test their server for the 'open relay' you spoke about on mail-abuse.org. Also, provided in the post are the results of that test. The results clearly show ther is NO 'open relay'.
SBC then asked DNS Central to contact their DNS Department at 1-888-932-4678. When DNS Central attempted to do this, they were told flatly that their server was not blacklisted, re-routed back to DSL Support and basically ignored after doing exactly what SBC asked for. But, of course, SBC is saying something completely different now, which is par for the course over the last few days.
With regard to DNS Central, they are not a true hosting company. As I've said from the outset, they are a forwarding service. The were able to take my domain transfer and forward both my web traffic and email to where ever I told them to point (currently my SBC webspace and SNET mailbox). I know for a fact that earlier in the year, Comcast HSI blocked all thrid party forwarding for a week or so, but after a huge outcry, worked out something to re-enable the forwarding.
Since I registered my domain 5 years ago and transferred it to DNS Central 4 years ago, every ISP I've transferred to has accepted the mail and web traffic forwarded to me without incident, until now.
--
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LD
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»www.webslingr.com
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dazenet @ 23rd Mar 12:04AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
David, thanks for the link to this forum.
Some clarifications:
1) DNS Central does not provide outgoing mail services for the very reason that spammers love to abuse them. A theory about a DNS Central customer spamming SBC customers is not true.
2) Claims that DNS Central's entire netblock is blocked are not true. They have only blocked one IP address.
3) The blocked IP address is for the server that accepts *incoming* mail for DNS Central domain e-mail customers. These customers in turn specify where their mail should be delivered.
Blocking that mail server will NOT cut down on any spam SBC customers may or may not receive. The only SBC customers that receive mail from that mail server are those that have a custom domain with e-mail forwarding purchased from DNS Central.
4) Regarding "the mail server doesn't have true reverse DNS". I'm not sure what is the basis of that statement, however here is how a reverse DNS check works.
First you find out what name the IP address resolves to (i.e. "the reverse DNS"):
% host 130.94.96.194
194.96.94.130.IN-ADDR.ARPA domain name pointer mailserver-130-94-96-194.dnscentral.com
Then you do a forward lookup to see if you get the same IP address:
% host mailserver-130-94-96-194.dnscentral.com
mailserver-130-94-96-194.dnscentral.com has address 130.94.96.194
If they match, then the reverse DNS checks out.
dazenet aka Daze Networks Abuse Team.
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lildschwarz @ 23rd Mar 10:23AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Well, here's today update (3/23/04), as per usual, most of this information has been gathered and obtained by me.
Tried having my webslingr mail forwarded to my hotmail account. After the email database was updated, no webslingr.cm traffic goes to my hotmail account, but sending directly to my hotmail account works fine.
According to the DNS Central techs, the mail that is being forwarded to the hotmail account is being quened for some reason. Shot off an email relaying these facts to Hotmail Support, so let's see how many support staffs we can involve on this issue.
Since my Hotmail account didn't work, I thought, let me try forwarding to my original Yahoo Mail account. Waited for the email database to be updated and VIOLA! my webslinger emails are forwarding successfully to my original Yahoo Mail account.
While I'm still not satisfied with not being able to use the email addresses I want to forward to, something is better than nothing after 3 1/2 days without email at all.
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David @ 23rd Mar 12:16PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
I believe I put the response I got inside the post you have with me... That is what I got.... Now as to why it is being blacklisted is beyond me and he stated he would request the delisting
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lildschwarz @ 23rd Mar 12:21PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Yes, you did put the most updated info in the sbc direct post.
Thanks for that. It's good to know that Ive been right all along about not just my domain being blokced.
Anyway, I've forwarded your information on to DNS Central, even though I probably shouldn't have since they seem to have no idea in what direction to go and who to talk to in order to address this issue.
It's becoming clear to me that I might have to switch hosting companies. Do you have any suggestions as to who is reputable, not blacklisted and offers email and website forwarding??
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anon @ 23rd Mar 01:33PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
>>I plugged their IP in at the spam database at dnsstuff.com and saw they were on a couple lists.
Did you look at the lists? The first one, BLARSBL wants $1000 up front to remove anyone from their list. It also says it is a personal list for Blars. The second one CHICKENBONER, with a yellow background, is returning a result of "DNS lookup error: SERVER FAILURE". The legend at the bottom of the dnsstuff.com page says "Rows with a YELLOW background usually indicate a temporary DNS problem (that does not mean that you are listed)."
I would suggest looking up snet.net's mail servers as well:
yipvmb.prodigy.net has address 207.115.63.29
207.115.63.29 is also listed on BLARSBL
mta1.snet.net has address 204.60.203.70
204.60.203.70 is listed in JAMMDNSBL
mta2.snet.net has address 204.60.203.71
204.60.203.71 is listed in HIL, JAMMDNSBL, and WYTNIJ
All three are showing CHICKENBONER with a yellow background.
The problem is that most of those lists are personal lists of individuals and are not being used by any ISPs to block mail.
Hope this helps.
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David @ 23rd Mar 02:11PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Well in the plight of forwarding the one I used recently was that the support address (shut off yesterday since we now have the forum, which is a very good thing :) ) I don't know of any
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Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime - Lao Tzu
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Maxo @ 23rd Mar 02:14PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
said by dsl4jim:
...The first one, BLARSBL wants $1000 up front to remove anyone from their list. It also says it is a personal list for Blars. The second one CHICKENBONER, with a yellow background, is returning a result of "DNS lookup error: SERVER FAILURE". The legend at the bottom of the dnsstuff.com page says "Rows with a YELLOW background usually indicate a temporary DNS problem (that does not mean that you are listed)."
Unfortunately this is becoming a bad byproduct of the war on spam. There was a news blurb about a month ago with the same thing happening to broadbandreports.com Their host, nac.net, was being blocked by many anti-spam companies because apparently some spammers were using their service to send out spam. Seems BLARSBL is using border-line extortion cloaked up as an anti-spam night on a white horse.
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If'n you ain't the grandaddy of all liars. I'll teach you to be happy. I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs - Happy Happy Joy Joy »maxolasersquad.com
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lildschwarz @ 23rd Mar 02:49PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
I'm posting this contact information for the Technical Lead that I am dealing with at SBC on 3/23/04. He expects to get back to me either later this afternoon or tonight with more direct contacts, any new information as to the nature of the problem and a course towards resolution.
Steven
Tech ID: XXXXXX
XXX-XXX-XXXX
[mod edit ---- information removed for privacy reasons --- fatness]
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bluescreen03 @ 23rd Mar 03:01PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Also saw them on PSBL yesterday. Looks like the requested to be removed this morning.
Not sure what list SBC uses.
copied from my history:
Passive Spam Block List
PSBL
News
List query
Remove an IP
How to use PSBL
About PSBL
This interface allows you to find out whether an IP address is/was listed in the PSBL and why. For every IP address that is/was listed, the site will show you the time(s) a spamtrap received email from said IP address, as well as the time(s) the IP address was removed from the list.
Query Results
Spam and removal history for 130.94.96.194 (times in UTC):
Thu Jan 22 18:xx:xx 2004 spamtrap hit
Tue Mar 23 03:xx:xx 2004 removed from list
Check this IP address in: Openrbl and Google groups.
Remove IP from PSBL
Remember that next time your mail server spams it will get listed again, so please do not spam. Feel free to remove your IP address from PSBL:
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dazenet @ 23rd Mar 04:34PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
said by bluescreen03:
Thu Jan 22 18:xx:xx 2004 spamtrap hit
Tue Mar 23 03:xx:xx 2004 removed from list
Note the date. If SBC was using that list, the block would have been in place a couple months ago.
PSBL is a good idea. It just however needs a bit of work to filter out legitimate non-spam bounces.
The following shows what I mean...
»work-rss.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/···4.96.194
The three entries are all user unknown bounces of worm/virus/spam addressed to DNS Central customer's domains with from addresses that were spamtraps. The mail was returned to the spamtrap address, and the entry was generated.
This problem is just going to get worse for everyone on the Internet thanks to all the new worms and viruses using these methods of forging both the to and from addresses.
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lildschwarz @ 23rd Mar 08:02PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Latest news from DNS Central as of 8 PM EST (3/23/04)
We just recieved an e-mail from SBC stating they have finally removed the IP address of the forwarding mail server. That e-mail is included at the end of this message. I'm not sure how quick they are going to
do this; perhaps it is already done. I would suggest that you perform a test before switching your main e-mail back to your SBC address.
We are still trying to get some more information out of SBC about why the block was placed in the first place.
Subject: Re: ABU1079738405205
To: Abuse Reports
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:28:36 -0600 (CST)
From: SBC Service Abuse
Hello-
Thank you for contacting the SBC Internet Services Policy department.
We have received your request to be removed from our RBL.
After investigating the IP address provided, we have honored your
request and removed this IP address from our RBL.
Thank you,
The SBCIS Policy Department
AND even more iformation;
Hello,
We apologize for all of the notices but we wanted to give you a quick status update. We were able to speak with Suzi Alaoui, Security Manager, SBC Internet Services on the phone. We asked her two questions:
1) Now that you have notified us that the block has been removed, how long will it take to take full effect?
Answer: Probably about 24 hours as each on the mail servers need to be updated.
2) Please provide the specific reason the block was in place?
Answer: We generally do not keep track of reasons for the blocks. Sometimes they are added due to complaints, other times they are just added at the whim of a tech. The only person that may have more information about this is Dawn Steele. The only way to contact her is via the e-mail address removeme@sbc.sbcglobal.net.
We will be attempting to contact Dawn Steele via the removeme address as we need to know why they choose to do this. As far as we are concerned there was no legitimate reason. We suspect that an SBC customer who is also a customer of DNS Central misunderstood the mail headers of a spam message and reported their own domain's mail server
(i.e. 130.94.96.194) as the source of the spam. We have seen this happen before at other ISPs that fail to fully investigate all complaints they receive for accuracy. We believe the same thing happened here.
Hopefully Dawn Steele will be able to shed some light on the issue.
Until we here more,
Respectfully,
The DNS Central Abuse Team
Quite an interesting take from both sides, I'd say.
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»www.webslingr.com
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David @ 24th Mar 12:59AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
said by lildschwarz:
Here's the latest from DNS Central;
Hello,
Finally a true statement directly from the SBC DNS Department. DNS Central is on the SBC Blacklist. The ONLY option they've given me is to communicate the following to DNS Central:
1) Go to »mail-abuse.org/tsi/ar-fix.html and implement the fix to close the 'open relay' of your particular server. (SBC says there is an open relay which is being used by spammers on your mail server 130.94.96.194.)
>We reviewed this site, but unfortunately this server is not an open relay. You can review their tests here: »work-rss.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rsstest 130.94.96.194
Since SBC is referring to mail-abuse.org, they must be using the mail-abuse.org blocklists as one source. 130.94.96.194 is not listed on either of mail-abuse's legitimate and very good blocklists.
»mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/lookup?130.94.96.194
»work-rss.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/···4.96.194
Once this open realy is closed or fixed, or whatever has to be done, contact the SBC DNS Department at 1-888-932-4678 and work it out with them.
>We have someone on the phone with them right now (after wading through their automated phone system maze). I will reply when I have further information.
Frankly, I'm a little tired of having to ping-pong between two companies that I am paying in good faith for service, which at this point, is not to my satisfaction.
>I agree. Checks and balances should be in place to keep things like this from happening.
Finally, the direct numbers I was given to contact someone at DNS Central are not being answered. I would like someone to please contact me at their earliest convenience. My # is 860-344-8054.
>I will give them your number.
Regards,
Support
You click on that 2nd link entitled "Our database has spam on file for this site. Click here to view it" there and see they do have evidence that it was listed as a spammer link... If that is the case then Mrs or Ms. Steele will have an indefinite case to block it, and permanently with no compensation...
I would be indefinatley reporting that to DNSCentral.com and have that cleaned up or they might find them on the blacklist awfully fast again.. Then you will be going through this all over again..
--
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime - Lao Tzu
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dazenet @ 24th Mar 03:36AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
said by David:
You click on that 2nd link entitled "Our database has spam on file for this site. Click here to view it" there and see they do have evidence that it was listed as a spammer link...
I would suggest reading the entry 2 posts before yours, and then actually review what is in that database file you are referencing.
If you just look at each of those entries on the surface (without the knowledge that viruses/spammers forge from addresses), they show that the people maintaining that database were the actual spammers, they attempted to send those messages to DNS Central customers and they bounced back to the sender.
However I'm hoping all of us here are smart enough to know that the from address was most likely forged.
If you analyzed the headers, you will find that those messages originated from the following IP addresses (listed in order from that file):
200.152.114.114
80.37.253.82
24.165.6.44
reply
lildschwarz @ 24th Mar 11:05AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
3/25/04
True to their word, it does seem that SBC removed the IP address block on DNS Central's mail server at around 3:30 yesterday EST. Last night mail began trickling in with a noticable lag (attributed to all the mail servers being updated) and this morning, mail seems to be coming and going in it's usually timely manner.
Spoke with Jason (another SBC Technical Lead), while Steven is off, and it seems that Steven has already contacted the policy department about my request for compensation.
I understand that the company line is, 'problem fixed, no compensation', however due to the extrodinary amount of time taken, time wasted on my part, emails lost and therefore business lost, I think that the company line should be overlooked on this occasion.
Furthermore, the answer as to why DNS Central was blacklisted, in the first place, is far more troubling. Someone at SBC obviously mis-spoke before thinking. Admitting that,
"We generally do not keep track of reasons for the blocks. Sometimes they are added due to complaints, other times they are just added at the whim of a tech."
makes the process sound arbitrary and who's to say this won't happen again. If I could be given a better answer to this question with quanifying proof, I wouldn't like it very much, but would be more apt to swallow the 'company line.'
And for those of you who say that there is proof of DNS Central propogating SPAM, you may be correct, howerver. consider the response given directly from DNS Central
Thu Jan 22 18:xx:xx 2004 spamtrap hit
Tue Mar 23 03:xx:xx 2004 removed from list
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note the date. If SBC was using that list, the block would have been in place a couple months ago.
PSBL is a good idea. It just however needs a bit of work to filter out legitimate non-spam bounces.
The following shows what I mean...
»work-rss.mail-abuse.org/cgi-bin/nph-rs..
The three entries are all user unknown bounces of worm/virus/spam addressed to DNS Central customer's domains with from addresses that were spamtraps. The mail was returned to the spamtrap address, and the entry was generated.
This problem is just going to get worse for everyone on the Internet thanks to all the new worms and viruses using these methods of forging both the to and from addresses.
If this information is indeed correct, is it the influx of viruses and worms sending 'zombie' emails that is real cause of the problem.
In closing for today, I've done some rough calculations. If I figure that my email was down from Noon Friday to 4 pm on Tuesday, that's 100 hours, minus 8 hours/day for sleep, that still leave 68 (sixty eight) hours where I couldn't receive my email and 68 hours I could have worked on the problem. That's an incredible amount of time to be without email if your business depends on it.
While I hold SBC responsible for obvious reasons, DNS Central does not get a pass either. I am a customer of both of these companies in good standing. Normally, they work on my hehalf. Considering the 68 hours above, even if you take half of that as time worked on this issue, where is my compensation for MY time and MY effort, from both sides since I seem to have been the main go between??
I really don't think I'm asking for anything more than I'm due; simply my satisfaction.
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LD
WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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Maxo @ 24th Mar 11:18AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
I'm impressed you got it resolved! I will be equally impressed if you also get financial compensation for this. Good luck.
reply
lildschwarz @ 24th Mar 11:20AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Thanks, I could use all the luck I can get.
The proverb that sums up this situation best is; 'The squeaky wheel gets the grease.'
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WebSlingr Consulting Services
»www.webslingr.com
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meskinct @ 24th Mar 11:37AM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
Thanks for posting all this to the forum. It was a good read. Nice to have everything all in one place. Glad it's fixed.
reply
dazenet @ 24th Mar 12:52PM:
Re: [help] Problem Receiving Forwarded Email
For the record, just received a response about the PSBL listing from the PSBL maintainer Rik van Riel:
quote:
It's a spam that was originally sent to a nonexisting user at your domain, accepted by your MTA and then bounced to the forged sender, that happened to be one of my spamtraps.
Update: Rik sent a couple more comments that he suggested I post
quote:
I've deliberately made the description "spamtrap hit" instead of "received spam" to avoid accusations that you are a spammer. It's clear that I should work on an FAQ for the about page that you and others can point at...
Also, having only one spam hit, 2 months ago, seems like a pretty good score ...
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